The Kopite View

Eight games played. Four wins, three draws and one defeat.

Ninth in the Premier League.

If you only look at Liverpool’s league position, you could be forgiven for thinking things aren’t going particularly well at Anfield.

And after Sunday’s 3-0 defeat to Manchester City, there are certainly questions that need answering.

But I’m going to say something that might not be particularly popular with everyone.

I still think it is far too early to judge Andoni Iraola.

I’m not pretending Liverpool have been brilliant. They haven’t. The attack has looked disjointed at times, there have been frustrating draws and the defeat to City exposed how much work remains to be done.

But what exactly did people expect Iraola to achieve in a few weeks, especially with the squad Richard Hughes left him?

That is the part of this conversation I think gets overlooked far too often.

The league position doesn’t tell the whole story

Liverpool’s record after eight games reads four wins, three draws and one defeat.

That is hardly disastrous, but it isn’t the sort of start supporters expect from Liverpool either.

The draws have been frustrating because there have been opportunities to collect more points. Liverpool have struggled to turn periods of control into convincing victories, and the attacking football we hoped to see under Iraola has not clicked consistently.

I want to see more goals. I want to see better movement in the final third. And I want Liverpool to look more dangerous against teams that sit deep.

Those are fair criticisms.

However, Liverpool have also won both of their Champions League matches and progressed in the League Cup. There have been encouraging signs, particularly defensively, and some of the younger players have given Iraola genuine options.

This isn’t a team that has suddenly forgotten how to win football matches. It’s a team still trying to find its identity under a new manager.

That distinction matters.

Iraola hasn’t inherited a perfect squad

This is where I think Richard Hughes deserves more scrutiny.

Liverpool spent heavily on attacking players, but the squad still has areas that look short of depth. There are questions over the balance of the team, the available full-back options and how Liverpool can cope when several attacking players are unavailable at once.

And we’ve already seen what happens when injuries arrive.

Alexander Isak and Cody Gakpo were ruled out of the Manchester City game after picking up injuries on international duty. Hugo Ekitike was also unavailable, leaving Iraola with limited recognised centre-forward options. The manager turned to the players he had rather than using injuries as an excuse.

That is not an easy situation for any manager.

You can have the best tactical plan in the world, but it becomes much harder to implement when the players you need are missing.

Liverpool have spent a fortune, so nobody is suggesting the squad lacks quality. But spending money and building a properly balanced squad are two different things.

For me, Hughes should be part of the discussion when we talk about Liverpool’s problems.

Iraola can only work with the players available to him.

You cannot expect a new manager to fix everything overnight

Iraola arrived with a clear reputation for front-foot, attacking football.

That was one of the reasons I was excited about his appointment.

I wanted Liverpool to press with purpose, move the ball forward quicker and play with the sort of intensity that makes Anfield a difficult place for opponents to visit.

We have seen glimpses of that, but we haven’t seen it consistently enough.

The temptation is to start questioning whether Iraola is the right man for the job.

I think that is premature.

Changing a team’s style takes time. Players need to understand new instructions, learn their roles and develop relationships with teammates. The manager also needs to discover which combinations work and which players are suited to his system.

Liverpool are still going through that process.

Even the defensive improvement we saw earlier in the season took time to develop. The understanding between Virgil van Dijk, Jérémy Jacquet and Ronald Araújo was beginning to look promising before the City defeat reminded us that there is still plenty to do.

One bad result doesn’t erase every positive that came before it.

Equally, two Champions League wins don’t mean every problem has disappeared.

We need to judge Iraola on the direction Liverpool are travelling, not just the league table after eight games.

The Manchester City defeat was a reality check

I’m not going to defend everything about Sunday’s performance.

Liverpool were beaten 3-0 at Anfield, and there is no getting away from that. City were the better side, and Liverpool struggled to impose themselves on the game.

That should concern us.

But I don’t believe the answer is to start writing off the manager after one particularly disappointing afternoon.

City are an established team with a settled way of playing. Liverpool are trying to build something new, and the gap between the two was obvious.

That doesn’t make the defeat acceptable. It simply puts it into context.

Iraola now has to work out how Liverpool respond. Can they improve their pressing? Can they create more chances? Can they become more competitive against the strongest teams?

Those are the questions that matter.

The upcoming run of fixtures will tell us much more than one result, particularly with Liverpool facing a demanding schedule across the Premier League, Champions League and League Cup.

There are still reasons to be optimistic

One thing I don’t want Liverpool supporters to lose sight of is that there are positives here.

Jacquet has shown why the club invested so heavily in him. Araújo has offered defensive flexibility, and the team has had periods when its defensive structure looked considerably better.

Lewis Koumas has also earned trust from Iraola, who backed the young forward ahead of the City match despite Liverpool’s shortage of attacking options.

That matters to me.

I want to see Liverpool develop young players rather than simply throwing money at every problem. I want to see a recognisable style of football emerge, and I want the manager to have the time to build a team that reflects his ideas.

Of course, that patience has to come with progress.

Liverpool cannot spend an entire season looking disjointed and expect supporters to be happy simply because the manager is new.

But eight games? That’s far too soon to reach that conclusion.

Give Iraola time – and hold the right people accountable

I understand why supporters are frustrated.

Ninth in the league isn’t good enough for Liverpool’s ambitions. The draws have cost points, the attack needs to improve and the defeat to City was a serious disappointment.

I’m frustrated too.

But I don’t want Liverpool to fall into the trap of blaming the manager for every problem without examining the squad he inherited and the recruitment decisions that shaped it.

Hughes has to take responsibility for building a balanced squad. The players have to take responsibility for their performances. And Iraola has to show that he can improve the team.

All three things can be true at once.

For now, I want to see Liverpool become more consistent, get injured players back and give Iraola a proper run of games with a stronger group available to him.

The Champions League and League Cup victories show that this team is capable of producing results. The Premier League performances show that there is plenty to improve.

Both sides of the story deserve to be acknowledged.

I’m not asking Liverpool supporters to be happy with ninth place. I’m asking them not to confuse frustration with a final verdict.

Iraola has a huge job on his hands. He needs to get more from the squad, make the attack click and prove that his football can work at Anfield.

But he deserves the opportunity to do that.

Eight games are not a season. One defeat to Manchester City is not the end of a project.

Let’s see where Liverpool are after the next stretch of matches, rather than deciding now that we already know how this story ends.

Because if Liverpool want to build something lasting under Iraola, they need to give him time to do it.

And if the squad Richard Hughes assembled isn’t strong enough in certain areas, that conversation needs to happen too.

Judge the performances. Demand improvement. But give the manager a fair chance.

Jamie (The Kopite View)

I have to say, I’m glad somebody is finally willing to speak their mind about Manchester City.

For years, Liverpool supporters watched Pep Guardiola’s side win trophy after trophy, often standing between us and some of the biggest moments in our club’s history.

Now, following the recent findings in the Premier League’s financial case against City, the debate has become impossible to ignore.

And Paul Merson clearly has very little patience for pundits who continue to defend them.

The former Arsenal midfielder has been outspoken about City’s financial controversy, arguing that their alleged financial advantages played a major part in their success. He has questioned whether City would have enjoyed the same dominance without the financial practices at the centre of the case.

That is the argument Liverpool supporters have been making for years.

You cannot simply separate what happens on the pitch from the circumstances that allow a club to build its team.

“They still have to win on the pitch” – Is that really the answer?

One of the most common defences of Manchester City is that their players still had to go out and perform.

Of course they did.

Nobody is suggesting that Kevin De Bruyne, Erling Haaland or the rest of City’s players could win matches without kicking a ball.

But that misses the bigger question.

How much does the ability to spend on elite players, build extraordinary squad depth and replace expensive talent whenever necessary influence what happens on the pitch?

Liverpool supporters know the answer all too well.

We watched our club assemble a magnificent team under Jürgen Klopp, pushing City to extraordinary points totals in two Premier League title races.

Liverpool collected 97 points in 2018/19 and 92 in 2021/22. Both times, City finished above us.

Those campaigns were incredible achievements, but they were also heartbreaking.

And that is why this debate matters so much to me.

It isn’t about being bitter because Liverpool didn’t win every title. It’s about whether every club was competing under the same financial conditions.

Liverpool supporters have every right to ask questions

The Premier League case has moved beyond speculation.

An independent commission found Manchester City guilty of serious breaches of the league’s financial rules, including charges relating to financial reporting and sponsorship revenue. City deny wrongdoing and have appealed the findings, so the legal process is not over and the eventual consequences remain uncertain.

That distinction matters.

The appeal must be dealt with properly, and any final sanctions need to follow the appropriate process.

But that doesn’t mean pundits should avoid discussing what the findings could mean for football.

If financial rules are there to protect the competition, supporters deserve to know that those rules matter.

Otherwise, what is the point of having them?

A club shouldn’t be able to argue that its success on the pitch makes questions about its finances irrelevant. The whole point is that the two things are connected.

The moments Liverpool missed out on still hurt

This is where I think Merson’s argument will resonate with Liverpool fans.

Think about those two title races against City.

In 2019, Liverpool won 30 league games and lost just once, yet finished one point behind Guardiola’s side.

In 2022, Liverpool pushed City to the final day again, finishing with 92 points. The Reds beat Wolves, but City’s dramatic comeback against Aston Villa secured the title.

Those were extraordinary seasons.

And Liverpool supporters will always be proud of what Klopp’s team achieved.

But it is impossible not to ask the question that has hung over this story for years: would the same outcomes have happened if every club had been operating within the same rules?

Nobody can honestly answer that hypothetical with certainty.

What we can say is that the commission’s findings have made the wider debate more serious than it was before.

And if the final outcome changes how City’s achievements are viewed, the implications could be enormous.

Why are some pundits so quick to defend City?

This is the part that frustrates me.

There is a difference between respecting City’s footballing ability and dismissing the importance of financial regulations.

City have had outstanding players and an exceptional manager. Their football has often been brilliant to watch.

But acknowledging that doesn’t mean the financial questions should be brushed aside.

Some pundits focus on the players having to perform. Others argue that financial breaches are not comparable to match-fixing or performance-enhancing drugs.

Those are arguments worth discussing, but they don’t settle the issue.

The question is whether breaking financial rules can give a club an advantage that affects the competition. That is precisely why the case matters.

Merson’s willingness to challenge the usual talking points is refreshing, even if people disagree with his conclusions.

Football needs honest debate, not an assumption that success makes a club untouchable.

Manchester City have their appeal – but the questions won’t disappear

City are entitled to challenge the commission’s findings, and they continue to maintain their innocence.

That process must be allowed to run its course.

But while it does, Liverpool supporters are entitled to question what the findings mean for the years of competition that came before them.

I don’t want Liverpool handed trophies simply because supporters are angry. Any decision about titles or sanctions must be based on the rules and the proper process.

What I do want is accountability.

If the financial rules have been breached, there must be meaningful consequences. And if the appeal changes the outcome, that should be explained just as clearly.

The integrity of the Premier League matters more than protecting any individual club’s reputation.

That’s the principle I keep coming back to.

Paul Merson may be more outspoken than some of his fellow pundits, but his comments have brought the central question back into focus.

How much should financial regulations matter when judging a club’s success?

For Liverpool supporters who watched Klopp’s team fall agonisingly short against City, that question isn’t going away.

And it shouldn’t.

Jamie (The Kopite View)

Honestly, this is exactly what Liverpool supporters were worried about.

When Dominik Szoboszlai was taken off during Hungary’s 1-0 win over Georgia on October 2, the explanation from national-team coach Marco Rossi was that he was suffering from cramp.

At the time, that sounded reassuring.

There was no immediate suggestion of a serious injury, and Szoboszlai was back in the starting line-up against Ukraine just three days later, playing until the 87th minute.

So naturally, Liverpool fans had every reason to think he was fine.

Now, however, Szoboszlai has a hamstring problem — and Liverpool have been dealt another frustrating injury setback.

Andoni Iraola confirmed that the midfielder missed Sunday’s meeting with Manchester City because he had returned from international duty feeling overloaded, with tightness in his hamstring.

Why was he playing so soon after the first scare?

This is the question Liverpool supporters will understandably be asking.

Szoboszlai was withdrawn against Georgia with what Rossi described as cramp. Hungary then played Ukraine three days later, and the Liverpool midfielder featured for almost the entire match.

There is no evidence that Hungary knowingly risked an injured player, and cramp does not automatically mean a hamstring injury is present. But, looking at the situation now, it is frustrating that Szoboszlai has returned to Liverpool with a problem after playing so many minutes for his country.

He had already been carrying a heavy workload for club and country. Liverpool needed him fit for a demanding run of fixtures, particularly with several attacking players already struggling with injuries.

Instead, Iraola has another key player to manage.

Iraola has played down the severity

There is at least some encouragement in the manager’s explanation.

Iraola described Szoboszlai’s issue as a combination of tiredness and overload, adding that the midfielder had tried to push through training but was not feeling 100 per cent.

He also indicated that the problem was “very small”, although the short turnaround before Liverpool’s Champions League trip to LASK meant Szoboszlai was unlikely to recover in time.

That is better news than hearing about a significant hamstring tear.

Still, Liverpool cannot afford to take chances. Hamstring problems can become more serious if a player returns before he is ready, and Szoboszlai’s importance to this team makes caution essential.

I would much rather see him miss a match or two than be rushed back and lose him for several weeks.

Liverpool really need him

Szoboszlai has become one of Liverpool’s most important midfielders because of his energy, pressing and ability to carry the ball forward.

He gives Iraola intensity that is difficult to replace, and Liverpool have already had to cope without Alexander Isak and Cody Gakpo.

His absence against Manchester City was another blow on a difficult afternoon for Liverpool, who eventually lost 3-0 at Anfield.

The fixture list now offers little time to recover. Liverpool travel to Austria to face LASK in the Champions League on Wednesday, and Iraola must decide who is fit enough to play.

I would not risk Szoboszlai simply because Liverpool have another important game coming up. The season is long, and his fitness will matter far more than forcing him into one match.

The international break has been frustrating

There is a wider issue here, too.

Liverpool have seen multiple players return from international duty with fitness problems. Gakpo and Isak have also been dealing with injuries, while Szoboszlai’s hamstring issue has added to Iraola’s selection problems.

International football is part of the game, and players understandably want to represent their countries. But clubs are left dealing with the consequences when important players return unavailable.

In Szoboszlai’s case, the initial explanation of cramp made the situation seem relatively harmless. His subsequent appearance against Ukraine appeared to reinforce that impression.

Now Liverpool must wait to see how quickly he recovers.

Hopefully, this is only a minor setback

I am not going to blame Hungary without knowing exactly what happened or suggest that playing against Ukraine definitely caused the injury.

But I can understand why Liverpool supporters are frustrated.

Szoboszlai was taken off with cramp, played almost another full international, and has now missed a major Liverpool fixture with a tight hamstring.

That is an unfortunate sequence of events.

The positive is that Iraola has described the problem as very small rather than indicating a serious injury. The priority now is to make sure Szoboszlai recovers properly and does not aggravate it by returning too soon.

Liverpool need him back, but they need him fully fit.

After the initial cramp scare, this is not the update any of us wanted. Hopefully, it proves to be a short-lived problem — and Szoboszlai is back in the team before long.

Jamie (The Kopite View)

I’m still frustrated about Liverpool’s 3-0 defeat to Manchester City, and I suspect plenty of other Liverpool supporters are feeling exactly the same.

Not just because we lost at Anfield, either.

There were warning signs before Ryan Gravenberch was sent off, there were problems going forward, and once Liverpool went down to ten men, the game quickly got away from us.

But that red card will understandably dominate the discussion.

And for me, there are five big talking points Liverpool need to take from this defeat.

1. The Gravenberch red card changed everything

Liverpool had kept Manchester City at bay for an hour, with the match still goalless and the contest finely balanced.

Then referee Chris Kavanagh showed Gravenberch a second yellow card for his challenge on Jérémy Doku in the 62nd minute.

I thought the decision was incredibly harsh.

Andoni Iraola was clearly unhappy afterwards, arguing that Gravenberch’s first booking should never have been a yellow card. Jamie Carragher also criticised the decision, describing the sending-off as shocking.

There is no escaping the fact that playing against City with ten men was always going to be a huge challenge.

But the timing made it even worse.

Liverpool conceded just minutes after the dismissal, with Erling Haaland putting City ahead before Doku and Rayan Cherki added further goals.

I’m not suggesting Liverpool would definitely have won with eleven players. City are an excellent side, and they still had to be dealt with.

But we were in the game.

The sending-off changed its entire complexion, and I think Kavanagh’s decisions deserve serious scrutiny.

2. Are referees getting the big decisions right against Liverpool?

This is becoming an increasingly frustrating subject for Liverpool supporters.

When you play Manchester City, the margins are often tiny. One decision, one mistake or one moment of brilliance can determine the result.

That is precisely why consistency matters so much.

Liverpool fans will look at Gravenberch’s dismissal and ask why a match that was so finely balanced had to be decided by a second yellow card that many people considered soft.

Iraola certainly wasn’t happy, and neither were plenty of supporters watching at Anfield.

It feels as though Manchester City keep coming out on the right side of the big moments against Liverpool.

That doesn’t prove officials are deliberately favouring City, and I wouldn’t claim that without evidence. But supporters are entitled to question decisions that have such a major impact on matches.

The first booking is particularly important here. If Gravenberch shouldn’t have been cautioned in the first place, Liverpool were left paying a huge price for that earlier decision.

The Premier League and its officials need to make sure these moments are judged consistently.

Because when a red card changes a match so dramatically, supporters deserve clear explanations of why it was given.

3. Liverpool’s attack still isn’t clicking

The sending-off explains much of what happened in the second half, but it shouldn’t distract us from the problems Liverpool had before it.

We needed more going forward.

Liverpool have invested heavily in their attacking options, yet the team still looks short of cohesion at times. The movement isn’t always connecting, the final pass can be missing, and we haven’t consistently looked dangerous enough against the strongest opponents.

The absence of Dominik Szoboszlai, Cody Gakpo and Alexander Isak through injuries certainly didn’t help. Those are important players, and losing them at the same time leaves Iraola with fewer options.

But the bigger challenge is finding a way to make the attack function as a unit.

Florian Wirtz needs the right spaces to influence games. The forwards need better service, and Liverpool need to turn possession into genuine chances rather than expecting an individual moment to rescue them.

I still believe there is plenty of quality in this squad.

But quality on paper means very little if the team can’t make it work on the pitch.

Iraola has work to do.

4. Manchester City keep benefiting from the big decisions – and Liverpool fans have had enough

This is probably the point that will divide supporters, but I know how I feel about it.

Watching City leave Anfield with a 3-0 victory was bad enough. Watching Gravenberch sent off in a game that was still goalless made it even more frustrating.

City were clinical after the dismissal, and credit must go to them for taking their chances. Haaland, Doku and Cherki all produced decisive moments.

But that doesn’t mean Liverpool supporters have to stay quiet about the refereeing.

For me, the issue is not that every decision must go Liverpool’s way. It is that the same standard needs to apply to both teams, especially in matches of this importance.

I would like to see more transparency around decisions like this. Explain why the first yellow was given. Explain why the second challenge warranted another booking. Let supporters understand the reasoning.

The officials may believe they got it right, but that doesn’t mean the decision should escape scrutiny.

Liverpool lost 3-0, and City deserved credit for how they finished the match. Both things can be true.

5. The fixture list is about to test Liverpool properly

There is no time for Liverpool to sit around feeling sorry for themselves.

The defeat to City is followed by a demanding run of matches, beginning with Brentford away on October 17, then Villarreal in the Champions League on October 20 and Brighton at Anfield on October 25. Chelsea also await in the Carabao Cup before Liverpool face Arsenal on November 1.

That is a serious stretch of football.

And it comes at a time when injuries are already testing the squad.

Iraola needs to manage minutes carefully, get key players back fit and make sure the City defeat doesn’t turn into a longer slump.

Liverpool also need to learn from what happened at Anfield. They cannot control every refereeing decision, but they can improve their attacking patterns, avoid unnecessary bookings and give themselves the best possible chance of staying in matches.

The next few weeks will tell us a lot about the character of this team.

A strong response against Brentford would be a good start. The Champions League game then gives Liverpool another chance to build momentum before Brighton arrive.

There is still plenty of football to play, but Liverpool need to show they can cope when things go against them.

My verdict: Liverpool need a response, not excuses

I’m angry about the red card, and I think the officials should be questioned about it.

But I don’t want the entire conversation about this defeat to become a discussion about Chris Kavanagh.

Liverpool had problems before the dismissal. The attack needs to improve, the injury situation needs managing, and Iraola must find a way to get more consistency from his team.

City took advantage of the situation and punished Liverpool ruthlessly. That’s what top sides do.

Now Liverpool need to show they can respond.

Five talking points, one clear message: the defeat was painful, but what Liverpool do next matters even more.

The refereeing debate will continue, and supporters have every right to question the decisions.

But the best way for Liverpool to answer the criticism is on the pitch.

The fixture list won’t wait for us.

Jamie (The Kopite View)

I really wanted this to be the afternoon when Florian Wirtz and Bradley Barcola stepped up.

Manchester City at Anfield. The atmosphere was electric, Liverpool started with plenty of energy, and there was a real opportunity for our big-money attacking signings to make a statement.

Instead, Liverpool lost 3-0, and I was left asking the same question again.

When are we going to see the best of Wirtz and Barcola in a Liverpool shirt?

I’m not writing either player off. Far from it. There is too much ability there for that, and I still believe Liverpool can get much more from both of them.

But we cannot keep pretending everything is fine when the performances aren’t good enough.

Wirtz needs to start influencing games

I feel particularly frustrated with Wirtz because we know what he can do.

We saw it during the international break when he scored a brilliant goal for Germany against Serbia. He reminded everyone of the talent that made Liverpool spend so heavily to bring him to Anfield.

But that is precisely why his Liverpool performances are becoming difficult to defend.

Against City, Wirtz had moments when he got involved, but he never really took control of the game. He struggled to impose himself physically and was substituted in the second half, shortly after Ryan Gravenberch was sent off.

That dismissal changed the contest, and Liverpool were always going to find life difficult with ten men. I’m not ignoring that.

However, Wirtz had been given an opportunity to influence a huge match before the red card, and I wanted to see more from him.

I want him demanding the ball, taking responsibility and making things happen.

He doesn’t need to score every week. I’ve said that before, and I still believe it. There is more to his game than goals and assists.

But there has to be a point where the clever touches and promising positions turn into something decisive.

At the moment, we’re still waiting for that to happen consistently.

Barcola isn’t giving Liverpool enough either

Barcola’s situation is slightly different because he’s still adapting to English football, and I’m prepared to give him time.

But against City, I was disappointed with him too.

He had opportunities to make things happen, yet too often Liverpool’s attacks broke down before he could produce anything meaningful. He struggled to make the difference in the final third, and he never really looked like being the player who could turn the game in Liverpool’s favour.

That is a concern when you’re talking about a player Liverpool have invested so heavily in.

Barcola has pace, directness and the ability to trouble defenders. Those qualities are exactly why I was excited about his arrival.

I want to see him running at full-backs, attacking space and making defenders uncomfortable. I don’t want him becoming another player who receives the ball, takes a touch and allows the opposition to get organised.

There is a dangerous winger in there. We just haven’t seen enough of him in a Liverpool shirt yet.

And with Cody Gakpo and Alexander Isak unavailable against City, Liverpool needed more from the attacking players who were fit.

Liverpool can’t blame everything on injuries

Of course, we have to acknowledge the circumstances.

Liverpool were without Isak and Gakpo, while Dominik Szoboszlai also missed the game with a hamstring complaint. Those are significant absences, particularly against a side as strong as City.

Liverpool also started brightly and created opportunities before Gravenberch’s dismissal changed the match.

City then took advantage, with Erling Haaland, Jérémy Doku and Rayan Cherki scoring in the second half.

I’m not suggesting Wirtz and Barcola were solely responsible for the defeat.

That would be unfair.

But injuries cannot become the explanation every time Liverpool’s expensive attacking players fail to deliver. These are players who were brought in to make a difference in precisely these kinds of matches.

When key players are missing, the others have to step up.

And on Sunday, I don’t think Wirtz and Barcola did enough.

I’m still backing them – but patience has limits

I know some supporters will already be losing patience with Wirtz, while others will argue Barcola needs more time.

I can understand both sides.

Personally, I’m not ready to give up on either player. Wirtz is adapting to a new environment, and Barcola is learning what it takes to succeed in the Premier League. A difficult afternoon against City doesn’t suddenly make them bad footballers.

But patience doesn’t mean we cannot criticise them.

Liverpool need their attacking players to develop an understanding, to take risks and to start producing more consistent performances. We need to see Wirtz becoming the creative influence we expected and Barcola turning his pace and ability into a genuine threat.

Andoni Iraola has work to do, too. He needs to find the right roles for them and build an attack that allows their qualities to complement each other.

That cannot happen overnight, but there must be progress.

The next few weeks matter

The defeat to City hurts, especially at Anfield, but Liverpool cannot allow it to define their season.

The important thing now is how they respond.

Wirtz needs to show that he can influence games against top opposition. Barcola needs to become more decisive. And when Isak, Gakpo and Szoboszlai return, Liverpool need to look like a team capable of creating chances and putting opponents under sustained pressure.

I still believe both signings can become important players for Liverpool.

But belief has to be matched by performances.

I’m not asking Wirtz and Barcola to win every game on their own. I’m asking them to start showing us why Liverpool spent so much money to bring them here.

After another disappointing afternoon, that’s not an unreasonable expectation.

I want them to succeed. I want to see Wirtz lighting up Anfield and Barcola terrorising defenders.

But right now, we’re still waiting.

And Liverpool cannot afford to wait forever.

Jamie (The Kopite View)

It was a horrible afternoon at Anfield.

Losing 3-0 to Manchester City at home is bad enough, but watching Liverpool’s performance unravel after Ryan Gravenberch was sent off made it even harder to take.

Yet, strangely enough, there was one positive I took from the game.

Gravenberch was looking like the midfielder Liverpool have been waiting to see again.

I know that might sound odd after he was sent off in the 62nd minute. His second yellow card gave City a massive advantage, and Liverpool paid a heavy price as Erling Haaland, Jérémy Doku and Rayan Cherki scored to secure a 3-0 victory.

But before that dismissal, I thought Gravenberch was one of Liverpool’s best players.

And after the difficult start he has had to this season, that is something worth talking about.

This was much more like the Gravenberch we know

I’ll be honest: I haven’t been convinced by Gravenberch in the opening weeks of the campaign.

We know what he can do. We’ve seen him carry the ball through midfield, beat opponents with his strength and footwork, and turn defence into attack with those driving runs.

But that hasn’t been happening consistently enough.

Against City, however, I saw signs of the player Liverpool need him to be.

He was carrying the ball with purpose, getting involved and looking far more confident when he had possession. He wasn’t simply moving the ball sideways and hoping somebody else would make something happen.

He was trying to make things happen himself.

Liverpool were far from perfect, and City certainly had their moments before the break, but Gravenberch gave us some real energy in midfield.

He also tested Gianluigi Donnarumma from distance, with the City goalkeeper forced into saves as Liverpool tried to find a breakthrough.

That aggression and willingness to take responsibility is exactly what I want to see from him.

The sending-off changed everything

There is no getting away from the red card.

Gravenberch received his first yellow card shortly after half-time for a challenge on Elliot Anderson. His second came in the 62nd minute when he went in late on Doku as the City winger threatened to launch a counter-attack.

Referee Chris Kavanagh showed him a second yellow, and Liverpool were down to ten men.

Jamie Carragher subsequently criticised the decision, describing the sending-off as a shocking call and questioning the first booking too.

I can understand why Liverpool supporters were frustrated.

The match had been finely balanced, and Gravenberch had been one of the players giving Liverpool a chance of getting something from it.

But he also has to learn from the situation. Once you’ve been booked, you have to be careful about how you approach the next challenge, particularly against a team with players as quick and dangerous as City.

His dismissal was costly, and he’ll miss Liverpool’s next Premier League match against Brentford through suspension.

That is another blow Liverpool could have done without.

Still, I don’t want the red card to overshadow everything positive he showed before it.

Liverpool need this version of Gravenberch

This is the big thing for me.

Liverpool need Gravenberch to be more than a tidy midfielder who keeps possession ticking over.

They need him to drive forward, break lines and give the team a different way of attacking.

When he plays with confidence, he can do all those things.

He has the physical ability to ride challenges, the technique to get out of tight spaces and the mobility to carry Liverpool up the pitch. Those qualities are particularly important when opponents press aggressively and try to stop Liverpool building attacks.

We haven’t seen enough of that from him recently.

Against City, there were encouraging signs that he could be getting back towards that level.

And with Liverpool having so much work to do after this defeat, they need their important players to start rediscovering their best form.

Gravenberch is certainly one of them.

One good performance doesn’t solve everything

I’m not going to pretend this defeat was anything other than hugely disappointing.

Liverpool lost 3-0 at Anfield, and the manner in which City took control after the red card made the result even more painful.

There are serious questions for Andoni Iraola to answer, particularly about Liverpool’s attacking threat and how the team responds when a match turns against them.

Gravenberch also needs to make sure this performance becomes a starting point rather than a one-off.

He cannot afford to follow a promising display with another run of games where he struggles to influence proceedings.

But perhaps that is why I found his first hour against City encouraging.

After a difficult start to the season, he showed that the ability is still there. He looked more purposeful, more involved and more willing to take the game to the opposition.

Now he needs to build on it.

Unfortunately, suspension means he won’t be able to do that against Brentford, but the break could give him time to reflect on both sides of his afternoon at Anfield.

The silver lining in a miserable afternoon

I would much rather Liverpool had beaten City and Gravenberch had played well without getting sent off.

Obviously.

But football rarely gives you exactly what you want, and sometimes you have to look for the positives in a disappointing result.

For me, Gravenberch was that positive.

His dismissal was frustrating, and it contributed to Liverpool losing control of a game that had been close. But his performance before that moment gave me a reason to be hopeful about his season.

Liverpool need the confident, aggressive and forward-driving version of Ryan Gravenberch.

The one who demands the ball. The one who carries it through midfield. The one who makes opponents worry about what might happen next.

We saw glimpses of that against Manchester City.

Now I want to see it consistently.

The result was awful, the red card was costly, and Liverpool have plenty to work on before their next match.

But I’m not writing Gravenberch off.

If anything, his performance before the dismissal reminded me why I still believe there is a very good midfielder in there.

That was the silver lining at Anfield. Now he needs to make it count.

By Jamie (The Kopite View)

I’ll be honest, I found parts of Sky Sports’ coverage of Liverpool’s defeat to Manchester City embarrassing.

Yes, City won 3-0 at Anfield. Yes, they took advantage after Ryan Gravenberch was sent off. And yes, Rayan Cherki and Jérémy Doku produced moments of real quality.

Nobody is denying any of that.

But there was something that really bothered me watching the coverage.

Manchester City had just been found guilty of 114 of the 115 alleged breaches in the Premier League’s financial case, yet the conversation kept returning to how brilliant they were.

Where was the same energy for the clubs and supporters who believe they were denied a fair chance to compete?

Where was the outrage about the consequences of the commission’s findings?

And why did it sometimes feel as though the football was being used to move the story along, rather than keeping the financial scandal firmly in view?

Yes, City played well. That isn’t the point.

Let me get this out of the way first.

Manchester City were excellent after Gravenberch was sent off. They scored three times, with Erling Haaland opening the scoring before Doku and Cherki added two more.

Liverpool were poor after going down to ten men, and we have to accept that.

But this wasn’t an ordinary visit to Anfield.

This was City’s first match since an independent commission found them guilty of serious financial rule breaches spanning several seasons. The club has appealed the verdict and continues to deny wrongdoing.

That context matters.

Liverpool supporters have spent years watching their club compete against City in title races that were decided by tiny margins. Those seasons involved extraordinary football, but they also involved the question of whether every club was competing under the same rules.

So when City arrived at Anfield, this was never going to be just another match.

The banners, the chants and the atmosphere reflected the anger of supporters who feel the integrity of those competitions has been damaged.

And yet, once the football took over, I felt that the wider issue was in danger of being pushed aside.

Neville and Carragher were happy to discuss City’s quality

What frustrated me most was the praise being directed at City’s players and their performance.

Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher were part of the Sky coverage, with plenty to discuss after City’s victory. Carragher praised Cherki’s quality while criticising Jeremie Frimpong, and the discussion inevitably turned towards City’s football.

To be fair, pundits are there to analyse the match. They cannot ignore good football simply because a club is involved in a major controversy.

And Carragher himself has been outspoken about what he believes should happen if City’s guilty verdict is upheld. He has argued that titles won during the period in question should be stripped.

So my complaint isn’t that nobody mentioned the case.

It’s that I wanted the coverage to keep the bigger picture in perspective.

City’s footballing ability and the financial findings are two separate issues. One doesn’t cancel out the other.

You can acknowledge a brilliant goal without forgetting the circumstances surrounding the club that scored it.

That distinction seemed to get lost in the excitement at times.

The word “cheating” isn’t coming from nowhere

Liverpool supporters were never going to welcome City warmly after these findings.

The commission’s verdict has given supporters even more reason to question the fairness of the competition during the period under investigation. The Premier League’s case included findings concerning commercial arrangements and the reporting of financial information. City have appealed, so the process is not over.

I understand why Liverpool fans use the word “cheats”. They feel their club and others were forced to compete against a team that the commission found had broken financial rules.

But the next stage matters. The appeal must be resolved, and the appropriate sanctions still have to be determined.

That doesn’t mean supporters should stay quiet.

It means the questions should keep being asked until there is a proper conclusion.

And it certainly doesn’t mean we should pretend this is just another football story.

City’s players aren’t the whole story

I also think there is a difference between criticising Manchester City’s players and questioning the people responsible for the club’s conduct.

The players who took to the pitch at Anfield didn’t decide the financial arrangements under investigation. They went out to win a football match, and they did that.

But that doesn’t make the wider issue irrelevant.

City can be a brilliantly coached team. Their players can be technically outstanding. Their manager can make excellent substitutions.

None of those things answers the questions raised by the commission’s findings.

And none of them should be used to distract from the need for a fair and credible conclusion to the case.

That’s what I wanted to hear more about.

Not endless repetition of the controversy, but a clear reminder that winning on the pitch and complying with the rules are two different things.

Liverpool have every right to be angry

The result itself was bad enough.

Liverpool were still in the contest at 0-0 when Gravenberch was sent off in the 62nd minute. Neville described the first booking as harsh, while Carragher called it a shocking decision. City scored shortly afterwards and went on to win 3-0.

That is frustrating in its own right.

But for Liverpool supporters, the match carried a much bigger emotional weight.

The club has come so close to City in several Premier League title races. Supporters remember the 97-point season in 2018/19 and the 92-point campaign in 2021/22. Those memories aren’t erased by one result, but the commission’s findings have inevitably reopened old wounds.

So, yes, I wanted Liverpool to beat City.

I wanted the players to give the supporters something to celebrate.

And I wanted the occasion to be a reminder that the footballing authorities must protect the integrity of the competition.

Instead, Liverpool lost 3-0, and the post-match conversation quickly became dominated by City’s quality and their response to the hostility.

That is what left me frustrated.

Sky Sports should be able to do both

This is not a demand for pundits to ignore what happened in the match.

It is a demand for better balance.

Praise Cherki’s goal. Discuss Doku’s impact. Analyse Maresca’s substitutions. Explain why Liverpool struggled after the red card.

But also remember why this match was so different from an ordinary Premier League fixture.

The commission’s findings deserve serious attention. The appeal deserves proper scrutiny. And supporters who believe their club was harmed by financial rule-breaking deserve to know that the issue won’t simply fade away once City score a few brilliant goals.

Footballing excellence should never be treated as a substitute for accountability.

Manchester City may have deserved their victory at Anfield. That doesn’t settle the financial case, and it doesn’t answer the questions that remain.

As a Liverpool supporter, I can accept defeat when the opposition plays better.

What I won’t accept is the idea that because City can produce a wonderful performance, the rest of the story no longer matters.

And that’s why I found parts of today’s coverage so frustrating.

The football mattered.

The result mattered.

But the wider issue mattered too.

Don’t let the brilliance on the pitch become an excuse to forget the questions that still need answering.

By Jamie (The Kopite View)

I’ve always resisted conspiracy theories about football officials.

I’ve never been comfortable with the idea that referees are deliberately favouring one club over another. Because if that’s genuinely what’s happening, what are we all doing here? Why invest our time, money and emotion into a competition if we believe the outcome is being manipulated?

But I also understand why supporters are losing patience.

And after everything that has happened with Manchester City, the Premier League really should be doing everything possible to restore confidence in the competition.

Instead, we keep finding ourselves having the same arguments.

Why are supporters being left to question whether football is being run fairly?

Why appoint Chris Kavanagh for this game?

The appointment of Chris Kavanagh for Liverpool’s meeting with Manchester City was always going to attract attention.

Kavanagh is from Ashton-under-Lyne in Greater Manchester. That fact alone does not establish that he is biased, and it would be unfair to suggest otherwise without evidence.

But surely the Premier League has to consider how appointments will be perceived, particularly when the atmosphere surrounding a fixture is already so charged.

Liverpool and Manchester City have spent years competing for the biggest prizes in English football. Their rivalry has been shaped by extraordinary title races, fine margins and moments that supporters on both sides will remember for the rest of their lives.

Now, with an independent commission having found Manchester City guilty of serious financial-rule breaches and the club appealing that decision, the atmosphere around this fixture was always going to be different. The Premier League confirmed the commission’s findings on September 29, while City maintain that the decision contains material errors and are challenging it.

That makes trust more important than ever.

So why create another talking point around the referee before the match has even kicked off?

I’m not saying Kavanagh shouldn’t referee Manchester City. I’m not saying his birthplace makes him incapable of doing the job fairly.

I’m asking a much simpler question.

When football is already facing a crisis of confidence, why not avoid appointments that are bound to attract scrutiny?

This is about the bigger picture

The most worrying thing about football right now is how many supporters have stopped believing that the authorities are acting quickly enough to protect the integrity of the competition.

The Manchester City case has dragged on for years. The independent commission has now delivered its findings, but the club has appealed and the question of sanctions remains unresolved.

There are legal processes that must be respected. Manchester City are entitled to appeal, and nobody should pretend that a complex case can be resolved without following the proper procedures.

But supporters are entitled to expect progress, clarity and accountability too.

The Premier League’s own statement said the commission found that City had used arrangements that artificially inflated revenue and reduced costs, and that the club had breached its duties of cooperation during the investigation. City dispute the conclusions and are pursuing an appeal.

Those are serious findings.

Yet fans are still waiting to discover what happens next.

And while that uncertainty continues, every controversial decision, every contentious refereeing call and every questionable appointment becomes another reason for people to doubt the system.

That is a terrible position for English football to be in.

You don’t have to believe in conspiracies to question decisions

This is the distinction I think gets lost in these discussions.

You can believe that referees are trying to do their jobs honestly while still questioning the decisions made by the organisations that appoint them.

You can accept that a referee’s geographical background doesn’t prove bias while asking whether the authorities should be more sensitive to the appearance of a conflict.

And you can insist that Manchester City receive a fair hearing while also demanding that the case reaches a proper conclusion.

Those positions aren’t contradictory.

In fact, they’re exactly what supporters should be asking for.

Football needs transparent processes, consistent standards and decisions that people can understand.

It doesn’t need supporters being told that every concern is a conspiracy theory.

Nor does it need people making accusations against individual officials without evidence.

The answer is to make the process more trustworthy, not to demand that everybody simply trusts it.

The Premier League has a chance to restore confidence

I genuinely believe the way the Manchester City case is handled will matter far beyond one club.

If serious breaches have been established by an independent commission, the eventual outcome must be dealt with properly and transparently, following the appeal process.

The punishment, if any, must be determined through the appropriate procedures rather than through pressure from rival supporters.

But the league also has to recognise the damage that prolonged uncertainty can do.

People invest enormous amounts of money in tickets, subscriptions and merchandise. They travel across the country to support their clubs. They arrange their weekends around fixtures and spend years following teams through the highs and lows.

They deserve to believe that the competition they are watching is being governed fairly.

If supporters reach the point where they no longer trust the authorities, the damage won’t be limited to arguments on social media.

Some will simply switch off.

And once people lose that emotional connection with football, winning it back will be difficult.

Enough of the uncertainty

I don’t want to become somebody who sees a conspiracy behind every refereeing decision.

I don’t want to watch Liverpool and immediately assume that every decision against us has been made for a sinister reason.

That would take the enjoyment out of football, and I refuse to believe that is where we have to end up.

But I also don’t think supporters should be expected to ignore legitimate questions about governance, transparency and the appearance of impartiality.

The Kavanagh appointment doesn’t prove that anything improper happened. His location is not evidence of bias.

However, when the game is already dealing with a crisis of confidence, the authorities should understand why supporters are asking questions.

The Premier League needs to finish the City process properly, explain its decisions and demonstrate that the same standards apply to everyone.

Football cannot survive on blind faith. It needs to earn people’s trust.

I’ve spent years watching Liverpool, through the brilliant moments and the painful ones. I want to keep caring about every result. I want to celebrate victories, argue about tactics and complain about referees when I think they’ve got something wrong.

That’s part of being a supporter.

But I want to do all of that believing the competition itself is being run properly.

At the moment, too many people are questioning that.

And the longer the uncertainty continues, the worse the problem becomes.

The Premier League needs to understand that trust is not something it can take for granted.

Jamie (The Kopite View)

Liverpool’s unbeaten start under Andoni Iraola is over, and what a painful way to end it.

After all the anticipation surrounding Manchester City’s visit to Anfield, Liverpool were beaten 3-0 by Pep Guardiola’s old rivals in a game that remained competitive for more than an hour before completely falling apart.

For a long time, Liverpool looked capable of getting something from the match. The atmosphere was intense, the supporters made their feelings about City’s financial case abundantly clear, and the Reds had spells where they threatened to take control.

But football is decided on the pitch, and City showed exactly why they remain such a dangerous opponent.

Ryan Gravenberch’s second yellow card in the 62nd minute changed everything. Erling Haaland, Jérémy Doku and Rayan Cherki then scored in a devastating second-half spell to leave Liverpool with their first defeat of the season.

Liverpool compete before the game turns

Iraola had to make changes before kick-off, with Dominik Szoboszlai joining Cody Gakpo and Alexander Isak on the sidelines. Lewis Koumas was handed his first Premier League start, leading the line in a Liverpool attack that also featured Florian Wirtz, Bradley Barcola and Victor Muñoz.

The first half was tense rather than spectacular. Liverpool worked hard to disrupt City’s rhythm, while the visitors struggled to turn possession into clear chances.

Muñoz threatened after linking up with Wirtz, and Gianluigi Donnarumma had to remain alert as Liverpool tried to find a way through.

At the other end, Alisson Becker was called into action to deal with dangerous City attacks. Neither side managed to find the breakthrough before half-time, but Liverpool had given themselves a platform.

There was plenty to encourage Iraola, even if the final ball and finishing were still missing.

Koumas gives Liverpool a spark

One of the positives was Koumas getting a proper opportunity.

The young Welsh forward had barely featured in the league before this match, but he was now being trusted to lead Liverpool’s attack against one of the strongest sides in the country.

He tested Donnarumma shortly after the restart, forcing the City goalkeeper into action. Gravenberch also made a dangerous run and had an effort saved, while Alexis Mac Allister fired narrowly wide.

For a spell, Liverpool looked capable of making the breakthrough.

That is what makes the eventual result so frustrating. This was not a game in which Liverpool were completely outplayed from the opening whistle. They were competitive, they created moments of danger, and they had opportunities to make City uncomfortable.

But they needed to take one of those chances.

They didn’t.

The red card changes everything

The turning point arrived in the 62nd minute.

Gravenberch, who had been one of Liverpool’s more influential players, was shown a second yellow card after bringing down Doku as City threatened to break forward.

It was a huge moment, and Liverpool supporters will understandably debate whether the challenge warranted a second booking.

But the reality was that Liverpool were suddenly down to ten men against a team that knows exactly how to exploit extra space.

Iraola was left with a difficult task. His side had been competing with City, but now they had to do so with a numerical disadvantage and still protect their goal.

The visitors wasted little time taking advantage.

Haaland, Doku and Cherki punish Liverpool

Three minutes after Gravenberch’s dismissal, City took the lead.

Doku drove into the penalty area and saw his attempt deflect into Haaland’s path. The Norwegian made no mistake, smashing the ball beyond Alisson to put the visitors ahead.

Liverpool had barely had time to recover when City struck again.

Doku produced a superb finish in the 68th minute, cutting inside before curling an effort into the far top corner. It was a brilliant goal, and one that left Liverpool with a mountain to climb.

Then came the best of the afternoon.

Rayan Cherki finished a wonderful move in the 78th minute, combining with Josko Gvardiol before using his footwork to evade Jeremie Frimpong and slot the ball past Alisson.

It was an outstanding individual moment, but it also summed up City’s quality in the final third.

Liverpool were stretched, tiring and struggling to contain the visitors with ten men. City punished them ruthlessly.

What does this mean for Iraola?

This is the first real setback of Iraola’s Liverpool reign, and it will be interesting to see how he responds.

The red card undoubtedly changed the game, but Liverpool also need to look at what happened before it. They had promising spells without finding a goal, and once City gained control, the Reds had no answer.

The injuries didn’t help. Liverpool were already without three important attacking players, and Koumas was being asked to lead the line in a match of enormous intensity.

I’m not going to judge Iraola solely on this result. He needs time to develop his team, and one defeat doesn’t erase the progress Liverpool have made defensively.

But the manager will know there are lessons here. Liverpool must become more clinical when opportunities arrive, and they need to find ways of keeping their attacking threat alive when matches become difficult.

A painful afternoon, but not the end of the story

There is no disguising how disappointing this result is.

Losing 3-0 at Anfield to Manchester City hurts, especially after Liverpool had competed well for much of the contest. The red card was decisive, but the final score will still raise questions about Liverpool’s ability to cope with the very best sides.

City leave Anfield with six wins from six league matches. Liverpool, meanwhile, have their first defeat under Iraola and plenty to think about before their next fixture.

I still believe Iraola deserves patience. This is a developing team, and the injuries have made his job harder. But Liverpool cannot afford to let this defeat become the beginning of a poor run.

The response matters now.

Liverpool have suffered a brutal reality check. The important thing is what they do next.

By Jamie (The Kopite View)

Well, this is a big one.

Liverpool welcome Manchester City to Anfield this afternoon, and Andoni Iraola has named his starting XI for a game that could tell us plenty about where this team is heading.

There are some interesting decisions in there, particularly in attack.

Florian Wirtz, Bradley Barcola and Víctor Muñoz all start, with Alexis Mac Allister and Dominik Szoboszlai also included.

Here is the full Liverpool team.

Liverpool’s confirmed starting XI

Alisson; Ronald Araújo, Jérémy Jacquet, Virgil van Dijk, Milos Kerkez; Ryan Gravenberch, Alexis Mac Allister; Víctor Muñoz, Dominik Szoboszlai, Bradley Barcola; Florian Wirtz.

Substitutes: Giorgi Mamardashvili, Wataru Endo, James McConnell, Kostas Tsimikas, Trey Nyoni, Joe Gomez, Lewis Koumas, Rio Ngumoha and Jeremie Frimpong.

Wirtz has another opportunity to make his mark

I’m particularly interested in Wirtz today.

There has been plenty of criticism of the German since his arrival at Liverpool, but I still believe there is a fantastic player in there.

He has just shown what he can do for Germany, and now he has another opportunity to produce that sort of influence in a Liverpool shirt.

With Barcola and Muñoz providing options around him, hopefully we’ll see Wirtz receiving the ball in dangerous areas and making things happen.

This is the sort of game where a big performance could change the conversation around him.

Barcola and Muñoz give Liverpool an attacking threat

Barcola’s pace could be particularly important against City.

Liverpool need to be brave enough to attack, but they also need to recognise the space that can open up when City commit players forward.

Barcola has the ability to carry the ball at defenders and stretch the opposition, while Muñoz gets another chance to show what he can offer.

I like the idea of giving these players the responsibility rather than simply asking Liverpool to sit back and hope for the best.

If Iraola wants his team to play with attacking intent, this is an opportunity to demonstrate it against one of the strongest sides in the country.

Mac Allister’s inclusion is important too

I’m also pleased to see Mac Allister starting alongside Gravenberch.

Liverpool need control in midfield today. They cannot afford to let City dictate the tempo for long periods, particularly if they want to create enough chances to win the game.

Mac Allister’s passing and ability to find space could be crucial, while Szoboszlai offers energy and a threat going forward.

It will be fascinating to see how the midfield balances its defensive responsibilities with Liverpool’s need to attack.

Liverpool must take their chances

Let’s not pretend this will be easy.

City arrive in excellent form, and Liverpool will need to be disciplined without losing their attacking ambition.

The Reds have enough quality to hurt them, but that quality has to translate into clear chances and, ultimately, goals.

I want to see Liverpool play with confidence, press with purpose and make life uncomfortable for City.

Most importantly, they need to stay switched on defensively. Against this opposition, one lapse can be punished.

My biggest hope is that Liverpool play on the front foot and give themselves a proper chance of winning this game.

Iraola has made some interesting calls, and now it’s up to the players to deliver.

Anfield will be ready.

Let’s hope Liverpool give us something to shout about.

Jamie (The Kopite View)